OMIGAWD Twice!!!!!

Controlling is the ABSOLUTE LAST thing I'd want to do here or any forum or place or situation or whatever!

A forum should be a nice entertaining place where people can converse and discuss and chit chat and laugh and argue without tooooo much control or anybody imposing anything on anybody.

Yes, control is of course desireable for cases like DArtagnan outlined in his 9 points etc - and it's very nice that you moderators have volunteered to do this FOR US.  But IMHO - there ARE seniors who've forgotten that they're NOT there to IMPOSE their will, their thinking on others - and grant neg points indiscriminately without much thought and ..... hate to say this... in some instances to satisfy his own ego (OHMIGAWD ..... now you know why I want this to be moved to the "no points" fight Club??  SEAJ- you really ARE an Idiot!!)

SEAJ
edits for spelling
errrr... "lease consider...." moving this all to the fight club Edits in  bold

[ Last edited by  SEAJ at 20-1-2010 21:15 ]

what does OMIGAWD stand for ?

Ooooops - I been blasphemisin' again!!

= Oh My God!

I realy am going to go to hell!!  

SEAJ

for what we've been debating here, no one's going to give you any negs

  OK - you're reading me correctly... that I
AM worried about being dinked....again!

AND such irrational fear should not even have entered my thought - that's really pathetic - but enter it, it did here!

Just imagine - for someone as thick skinned as I to have such thought - how's a newcomer gonna act/think/behave whilst here?!

Anyway, my suggestion to move this all to the fight club is in order to 'encourage' some others...especially newcomers ... to express their own thoughts and also hopefully - their IDEAS and suggestions to make this forum an even better place. You like?

SEAJ

The purpose of the fight club was not for newbies to express their opinions (they can't do that anyway because its RA20)
... they can do that anywhere ...
its a venue for members who's having strong disagreements with each other and want to express themselves
under a controled enviroment.

How about this?  From a generous PoV, I understand your position, but Twice has already correctly pointed out the flaws in your logic.

From a harsher PoV, I think you're just being a big pussy and giving this whole -K thing way too much focus.  As Dart pointed out, -K really has no lasting effect unless you're an idiot who is looking to get banned like trolls and spammers do.  Your desire to move this to Fight Club as a "safer" place for you to voice your opinions b/c you fear -K and -A just tells me that you're a small-minded and egotistic twat that obviously thinks everyone here would be out to get you just b/c you said something disagreeable.  You and I joined at more or less the same time, and I find it hard to believe that you think you'd get tagged for voicing your opinion in a reasonable and rational manner. I'd personally appreciate it if you kept speaking your mind, but let your balls drop first.  Your "gentlemanly" manner is sickeningly more like sunshine and lollipops than polite.

OK ... now might be the time to go over to the fight club ...  

Eh, I've said my peace.  See how SEAJ responds.  Depending on his response, I'll take it to Fight Club. I really see no reason to continue as long as he's willing to acknowledge what I've said with an open mind.

And what ARE the flaws according to you?

Big pussy, Small minded and egotistic twat - AND that is much better than "sunshine and lollipops?"
Interesting!!  Very interesting the perspecitve it gives to the kind of character you are - I must say!

And as for letting ballsdrop is concerned - it's quite apparent that in your case - for you to be such a strong proponent of such - that it must have preceded your mental development.

Banger - you're very fond of "ribbing others" into doing and saying things - things that you yourself have not enough guts to say or do yourself (e.g. #38 post on the fight club) - the typical shoe shine boy to the bully.  So where's your Balls drop down to?

SEAJ

PEACE???!!! You've said your PEACE?

I'd like to see your fightin' words if dem's your peace!  ROFLMAO!!

SEAJ

Thanks for the points - I'm an acceptance whore now!!

I'm at the fight club waiting.... waiting.... waiting!!

Twice - possbile/advisable for you to move the relevant posts over?

Thanks

SEAJ

Just PM me if you want to continue this in Fight Club.  I will explain myself here for now.

The ultimate flaw of any consequence is interpretation.  Speech of any sort - spoken or written is open to interpretation.  Take my response to you as an example.  I expected you to read btwn the lines past my antagonistic language, but that was an assumption on my part.  The main pt in calling you a pussy and telling you to let your balls drop is in response to what I interpret as your misplaced obsession with -K.  I liked your responses to my post much better b/c you were being much more assertive in what you said w/o this fear of retribution.  Calling you small-minded and egotistic is also based upon my perception that you automatically think that other bros would go out of their way to -K for saying something remotely disagreeable.  Did you -K or -A me b/c I said something disagreeable?  No.  In fact, now we have something to talk about.  And you'll notice that I'm being polite as opposed to what I termed "sunshine and lollipops."  Your suggestions about -King newbies, therefore, are a product of flawed logic b/c people will interpret and respond in whatever fashion they deem fit, regardless of what you or I think or say.

As for your final pt about my post in Fight Club, I don't really know or care where you got this idea from.  That is obviously how you interpreted my posts for some reason.  The point of that particular post has nothing to do with what you seem to think.  I think if we get to know each other better, you'll see that I don't mind offending people (much to my own detriment), so I don't really need to "rib" others into doing that for me.

Like twiceAweek, I was hoping this debate was over but I can’t let it end with Marsupial’s simplistic regurgitation of his oft-repeated opinions, which I consider to be manifestly incorrect. He says:


As twiceAweek has pointed out, none of us are experts here, so what Marsupial is saying MIGHT be true, for all we know. But there are plenty of real experts who will completely disagree. One such opinion is given in the very first post of this thread, which, with respect to DATY, states:

"Cunnilingus carries a theoretical risk of HIV transmission for the insertive partner (the person who is licking or sucking the vaginal area) because infected vaginal fluids and blood can get into the mouth. (This includes, but is not limited to, menstrual blood). Likewise, there is a theoretical risk of HIV transmission during cunnilingus for the receptive partner (the person who is having her vagina licked or sucked) if infected blood from oral sores or bleeding gums comes in contact with vulvar or vaginal cuts or sores."

You’ll note that the reference to bleeding gums ONLY applies to an infected man passing HIV to a woman, not an infected woman passing it to the man.
Perhaps Marsupial misunderstood or perhaps he’s deliberately trying to mislead us.

With respect to DATY, Marsupial writes:


Again referring to the internet quote given in the first post of this thread:

"With fellatio… For the insertive partner there is a theoretical risk of infection because infected blood from a partner's bleeding gums or an open sore could come in contact with a scratch, cut, or sore on the penis."

That’s what Mars says, except that he conveniently left out the part about the man’s damaged penis. I think most of us might notice if we have a cut on our dick.

So, in both cases, DATY and BBBJ, Marsupial disagrees with this expert's opinion and makes DATY safer and BBBJ more dangerous. I’m sorry to say this but I genuinely believe that Marsupial is deliberately trying to mislead the bros on this forum and is deliberately trying to put them in harm’s way. That’s why I started this thread in the first place and, in his post #79, Marsupial has again confirmed my worst opinion of him.

Why he would want to do this, I have no idea. But what other explanation can there be?

For the record, and to pre-empt a reply, I’m not saying that it’s impossible for a man to be infected with HIV by BBBJ, even if he has no damage to his dick. I suppose that it’s theoretically possible for the virus to pass down the urethral canal. It’s up to everyone to assess their own acceptable level of risk but don’t believe ANYONE who would tell you that you have to have a cut in your mouth to contract HIV from an infected DATY partner.

I admit I'm no expert, but most of what I have read on this subject has confirmed that, for the man, DATY is more dangerous than BBBJ and, for the woman, the opposite is true. I.e. it's the one doing the sucking who is at risk.

Also, for both partners, I agree that the odds of becoming infected by oral sex is very low. But bear in mind that Marsupial is nearing 60 and I suppose dying of AIDS is not high on his list of fears. Even if he contracted HIV, he'd be dead of old age before AIDS killed him. But if you're a guy in your 20s, and looking forward to having a wife and kids, you might want to look at things a little bit differently.

Be safe.

[ Last edited by  pisser at 21-1-2010 00:12 ]

What I wrote:

"the environment that saliva provides is too harsh for infectious HIV particles to remain intact and viable. Furthermore, the linings of the mouth and throat are very resistant to viral infections such as HIV, so infection is unlikely if they are healthy and uncompromised."

is from a source that specifically deals with HIV viability in the mouth.

Your quote:

"Cunnilingus carries a theoretical risk of HIV transmission for the insertive partner (the person who is licking or sucking the vaginal area) because infected vaginal fluids and blood can get into the mouth."

is oddly vague about this "theoretical risk" - it doesn't say anything at all about the condition of the mouth. Are we to think the a cut in the mouth has no influence whatsoever on HIV transmission via DATY? Or is such damage implied? He is specific about cuts in the mouth being a prerequisite for HIV transmission to the woman during DATY because he needs to account for the presence of blood in the guys saliva.

The bit about the guy needing to have a cut on his penis to become infected from a BBBJ doesn't make any sense, and, in fact, is not mentioned in any of the sources I referenced. I say it doesn't make sense because if a guy can become infected with the HIV virus during unprotected vaginal sex regardless of whether or not he has a cut on his penis, why should a cut on his dick be a prerequisite for infection when exposed to the HIV-laden blood in a girl's mouth? After all, there is a much higher concentration of the virus in blood than in vaginal secretions. And the dick does not benefit from any of the anti-viral properties of the oral environment.

But pisser, why is it that if you have so much concern for that poor 20 year old that you feel it necessary to warn him off DATY, you think it's perfectly all right for the guy to risk his life for a BBBJ? I'll take you serious in all of this when you start warning everyone off all forms of oral sex, not just the ones you don't personally enjoy.

from your source:

BBBJ - Documented Risk: Although the risk is many times less than anal or vaginal sex, HIV has been transmitted to receptive partners through fellatio, even in cases when insertive partners didn't ejaculate.

DATY - Documented Risk:The risk of HIV transmission during cunnilingus is extremely low compared to vaginal and anal sex. However, there have been a few cases of HIV transmission most likely resulting from oral-vaginal sex.

So your guy thinks the risk form BBBJ is "many times less" than vag sex, while the risk from DATY is "extremely low" compared to vag sex. Sounds like he's a DATY guy to me.

(btw, I notice the guy you quote, Mark Cichocki RN is a nurse)

Anyway, he goes on to state that:

Abstinence, or the voluntary choice to refrain from sexual activity is the only 100% effective means to prevent HIV and STD transmission. Non-coital (non-sexual) forms of sexual intimacy range from holding hands, hugging, kissing, and dancing to mutual masturbation, petting, and the use of stimulating devices such as vibrators. While abstinence is an effective means of safer sex, it may be difficult to maintain.

Good advice - let us know how it works out for you.

Thanks for quoting that. You'll note that it refers only to HIV having been transmitted [via BBBJ] to receptive partners, ie. the woman. It make no reference to any documented case of HIV having been transmitted to insertive partners, i.e. the man.

This further confirms the opinion of most experts that it is the receptive partner who is at most risk - i.e. man in DATY and woman in BBBJ.

Yes, that did escape my attention. Nice catch. Now how about dealing with the main points of my post?

The fact remains that HIV transmission to the insertive partner via BBBJ is still possible if the girl has a bleeding wound in her mouth. You yourself admit BBBJ isn't risk free, with the caveat that both partners need to have some kind of wound for infection to occur (note that I do not agree that the guy needs to have a cut on his dick to become infected; my above argument remains perfectly reasonable - see the reference quoted below.)

So the question still stands:

Why is it that if you have so much concern for that poor 20 year old that you feel it necessary to warn him off DATY, you think it's perfectly all right for the guy to risk his life for a BBBJ?! I'll take you serious in all of this when you start warning everyone off all forms of oral sex, not just the ones you don't personally enjoy.

below

http://aids.about.com/od/safersexquestions/f/oraltrans.htm

Question:

Can I Get HIV From Someone Performing Oral Sex on Me?

HIV and oral sex; a matter of HIV risk and HIV transmission. The answer to this question may surprise you. The risk of oral sex is not well documented but does exist. While many consider oral sex the "safe sex" the facts tell a different story. Is there an HIV risk with oral sex? The answer to this question of HIV transmission may surprise you.

Answer:

Simply put, the answer is yes. It's possible for you to become infected with HIV while receiving oral sex, but certainly the risk is extremely low. The scenario that would lead to HIV transmission of this sort is very rare and the chance of it occurring is remote. If your partner has HIV, blood from small cuts or open sores in their mouth may enter the urethra (the opening at the tip of the penis), the vagina, the anus, or directly into the body through small cuts or open sores. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is much less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

You will notice that I have no interest whatsoever in establishing any kind of hierarchy of risks for the various forms of oral sex . I limit myself merely to repeating what all of these sources say, that the risks associated with both behaviors are extremely low. Therefore my position is logically consistent: you can enjoy both BBBJ and DATY with very little concern, but if you want to eliminate even the theoretical risk of infection, don't do either. However, when you, pisser, warn about the dangers of the one you don't like, while insisting the one you do like is safe, you open yourself up to the charge of hypocrisy.

I have a stupid question for "Pisser and Marsupial".  When you have sex, doe you guys turn "off" or "on" the light ?

maybe tell us your preference first ...

I think I've already given answers to that, more than once, but I'll give it again.

As you've correctly pointed out everything in life involves risk and neither BBBJ nor DATY are 100% safe. But, from what I've read, for the man, BBBJ is much safer than DATY [and the opposite for the woman]. So I've assessed the risks and made my decision and I've advised other bros to do the same. Unlike you I'm not suggesting which course of action they should take. They must think about it for themselves and make their own decision.

But what they don't need is somebody like you telling them that they're a wimp, not a man or they can't satisfy a woman unless they DATY. Or as you said the one bro who wrote that he didn't want to DATY a WG:


That comment truly was despicable and if you said it to someone's face would certainly earn you a punch in the mouth.