Twice this was a long long time ago. Probably around handover in 97. I was still a junior bank then. Hard to go with the flow twice. There's a reason why you'd call it a foreign object and the pucker would resist.

Which. Oh veggie saunas did you go to that still offer the various options of play?

As usual, twice cuts through to the heart of the matter. Pace the esteemed Sik, the base rate at most spas has increased from about $250 to $300 for 60 minutes in half a decade, while the standard tip has tripled from $100 to $300 for similar service.

Some spas, in WC, for instance, have in fact rolled back the base rate to $250, so that a total payment of $700 represents a $450 tip on top of the girl's cut of the house fee. All this despite spas having mushroomed recently. It's certainly a function of supply and demand, but to paraphrase Jack Nicklaus, it's a game with which I am not familiar.

I was on the sauna scene way before that and to this day I still have never seen any male masseuse in the massage rooms - ever
(I'm talking about the full facility veggie saunas, no, actually in any sauna )

I think your friend brought you to one of those gay massage places    
do you remember the name of the place ?

how I compare is the total bill one pays at the end ... rent goes up for everyone, be it walk up joints to 30,000 SF full facility saunas

5 to 6 years ago the price gap between walk up joints Vs FS Joints and veggie joints were about 50%
narrowed to about 20% 3 yrs ago (which was when I started to bring this up in the forum) and now its almost equal

rent has nothing to do with this comparison, neither does cost of living

what is different is the walk up massage girls are asking lot more for what they are putting out

OMG, this thread reverberates with an experience I had about 2 years ago. I never wrote a report about it because I was too lazy.

Anyway one day I was strolling through the streets of Wanchai looking for an upstairs place for a nice massage. Though I had been away for just two years before that adventure, I figured my many years of experience would serve me well. I found a place that had a banner at street-level advertising their service. The pricing for a 90 min was standard (about $300).

I go upstairs and enter the premises. The place was chock-ful of young, attractive girls. Quite surprising for me as usually it is not the case for these upstairs massage places. The massage was quite uneventful, not really up to my standard, but passable. The shocker came at the flip when the girl told me how much I would need to tip for a standard HJ...$400! I was like 'Really?!" She replied that everyone has been tipping $400 for the standard HJ + masseuse removes some clothing for a total of $700.

I felt so insulted that person dares to quote such a high price that I counter with $300 tip to finish out the massage with no HJ wanted. I know I was being petty and that for another $100 I would at least had a chance to see what a $400 tip service would have been. But I just felt insulted and shocked at the same time...my previous experiences have failed me...I really needed to read the forum.

$700 for a massage + HJ is just too expensive for what one gets. Like some you have written, I would rather go to proper sauna where I can get a great massage, post-massage service, relaxing environment, and food. That experience scarred me enough that I haven't been back to those upstairs spa places not at least before checking this forum to see whether or not it has any reviews.

That place I went to 2 years ago is currently called the Parisian Spa. The current iteration now lists the 60 min massage at $600 and the 100 min at $1200. I cannot imagine what the tips would be to get any type of Happy Ending.

Stick to the better saunas in Kowloon.

Ridiculous, I agree. What's worse is that there are enough guys willing to pay those absurd rates to have their c0cks pulled by young, pretty girls. Either because they lack perspective because they're newbies compared with you and twice, or they figure it's cheap compared with having it done by a KTV girl or an HG.

One of the major reasons i still go to spa places is that they rarely get raided. Back when champagne B was still worth checking out, i was always under the constant rush to pop asap and get the fuck out of there before the cops come. I remember there was a time when i was pumping away at this 7 day girl. The girl had her eyes on the monitor to see if there were cops the entire time. All of a sudden she told me to stop and looked all concerned. In the end there were no cops and the fuck continues. This is the same with HG, i dont know you if you guys have been through an actual raid but its actually quite nerve wrecking. The cop bangs on the door nonstop. U know your fucked, u message the papasan. He tells u not to open the door, the girl begs u not to open the door. The cop evopens the door with the master key and bam your busted. While nothing happens after, its really not a pleasant feeling. But with spa its different, you get to enjoy the full 60/ 90/ 120 mins.

A little off topic but on the chinese side of the forum, there are talks about secret rooms. Does anyone know about these secret rooms and how to gain access to them?

Walkups, like cannabis, are what we call a "gateway drug". Erotic massage is the gateway for other, more hardcore activities. In Hong Kong, I do not know of any men older than 30 who are not sexually frustrated. For some of them, their partners are sexually conserved or boring; for others, the lack of space in Hong Kong homes prevents them from having sex. Many of these guys will end up using prostitutes but most do it in gradual transition. Walkup massage places are the first step for everyone. These are where an uninitiated, sexually frustrated guy can get naughty with a minimum level of guilt. There is no sex, so they are exactly cheating on their SO. And they can convince themselves that all they wanted is a massage and “things got carried away”.

Therefore, guilt, NOT money, is the largest deferment factor for a guy who is starting to pay for sex, and they would rather paying more than to face this guilty feeling. In other words, if you were to ran into your wife’s cousin at 11pm after having some fun, where would you prefer it to happen: outside an elegant building on Wyndham Street where you can say you are drinking with friends in the neighbourhood, or outside a dodgy KTV with flashy LED signs on Shandong street, where you have no reason to be? Even if the latter is much more fun and $300 cheaper, most people will still choose the former. Kama deserves an award for business innovation, as they are the first shop to remove the tipping system. For novices, the negotiation for tips before the deed is an embarrassing process because it confronts them with the fact that they are paying for sexual needs, the very psychological barrier they are trying to avoid.

The number of walkups, and their charges, depend on the existence of sexually frustrated men who are experimenting with this gateway drug. As long as this population is growing, their pricing strategy will not need to change. Also, while we are complaining about being ripped off, we should remember that walkup HE joints are actually the most risky sector of sex business in Hong Kong. While 141 is legal, HE parlours are not. In the first three weeks of June only, three massage spas have been raided by the police. The latest one is Club Avenue in Wanchai two days ago. This business is therefore being run on a high level of intrinsic risk, and the financial incentive must be high enough for them to bear this risk. Therefore, even in this climate of cutthroat competition, these massage spas will not compete on pricing.

Sex141 is a consumer group. As our "sex god in residence", Twiceaweek is right to raise concerns over the costs of walkup massage parlours, which have doubled in the past 5-6 years. Of course we are being ripped off, and of course we all wish to pay less. However, the market is always right, and here the force of the market is undeniable. As Twice pointed out in his analysis, the cost of going to HE massage spa is now catching up with genuine saunas with superior service and facility. One should assume that consumers will flock back to saunas and the number of walkups will decline. But the fact is walkups are proliferating like wild fire and they are killing off traditional saunas. In a short stroll in central, from cochraine street up Hollywood road, you will walk pass more than 15 walkup massage spas, all of them offering HE. So, walkups are overcharging and still people are flocking to them. As a consumer watch group, there is very little we can do. A return to the pre-2010 prices will immediately kill this business, as no one will take the risk without an attractive income.

For the veterans, the inflated price of walkups won't affect them because they know better and cheaper place. Twice can go to his BSS every night. However, for inexperienced punters, they will always rather pay more in exchange for the absence of guilt and awkwardness. I think in Hong Kong there are always more novices than veterans.

that was a rather pompous reply   … I can only agree with you on a few of your points and I can debate with you for a long long time about our view points …

but u make it sound as if I'm talking about bss being the big saunas I've been talking about , far from it !  I was talking about much bigger saunas … anyway until I can get on to a computer this is all I can type for now

Intriguing analysis of the Guilt-Gold nexus, but not sure I buy the Chicago School axiom that the market is always right.

Now that spas, too, are being raided left and right, as twice and I warned a couple of months ago, maybe the demand from the guilt- and risk-averse punters will droop, an unexpected example of government intervention resulting in the correcting of unsustainable market imbalances.

When you mean the bigger saunas, you mean like the one in fortress hill? Windsor?

yes and no … there are other big saunas where added services are easier to obtain

I remember going to places like Xanadu in TST where it was big and proper but not cheap. In the end people will go where people like to gravitate to but can feel comfortable about it. I agree with twice that  walk ups are increasingly frustrating and if you get the hand of the devil reaching out for more, you can speak out and more so with your feet. Just don't patronise them again.

in years gone by, Xanadu was top of the top sauna to go to, pretty girls that can massage as well as …
it was a small place and pricy but it was such a good place to go to

oh then enlighten us o God, what are these paradises thou speaketh of??!

Several of you should be awarded MPA degrees (masters of punting administration!)
I'm guessing I'm the oldest of the lot, fast approaching my mid-seventies, but I  have certainly learned a lot from this
thread.
I would estimate that about 85% of my punts have been in Kowloon and further North.

I'm certainly no expert on anything and perhaps I'm wrong about the rents, but have you all noticed how many of the old punting
buildings have been torn down? This will surely affect costs as fancy new ones are built.

Look at the area near the public toilet in Kimberley Rd. Several of those old buildings have been redeveloped and there is talk of both
Champagne Court and National Court coming down as soon as 80% of the owners agree to sell their units.

I understand the ratio between what the mama's make and the newbie girls from across the border demand in tips, but my point was they are all affected by inflation, both here and in Shenzhen, where many of them appear to be based.

I'm not defending the avarice of the girls, just saying that the protection payments have gone up, expectations of poshness have gone up, and as one of you pointed out, the ratio between newbie punters and seasoned veterans has also changed.

My two cents worth as I lie in bed getting ready for the day when I can get back out there and enjoy the young lovelies I can only read
about for now!

I agree inflation has brought prices up for everything plus cost of renting makes it even worse … but this goes for everyone not just walk up massage places
if one look back over the last 3 years, have walk up girls, hotel girls prices gone up by 30 to 50 % ?
have cost of big saunas gone up ? ~ actually I can say prices in big saunas have not increased at all !

bros here knows the number of these walk up massage places have proliferated these few years and yet added competition have increased their price instead of lowering them

why ? it's clear to me that these massage girls during their one on one with the client are asking way higher tips then what they normally expect thus increasing the total bill

all I'm saying is that cost of these walk up massage have gone up disportionally compared to the sauna/massage industry as well as sex industry in hk

[ Last edited by  twiceAweek at 28-6-2017 10:00 ]